BJ’s Tombstone History Discussion Forum

...getting her drunk for information doesn't really sound much like Behan's 'modus operandi.' He was definitely a womanizer but this just doesn't ring right, not his style.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any reference to her continuous bad conduct as far as public drunken behaviour goes. Seems the newspaper article would have expanded a little on the situation if it was not her first time.

As usual, I find it hard to buy. There are a number of questions that come up. I am also under the impression, and maybe wrongly so, that woman did not hang out and get drunk in the saloons. That was strictly a mans' world. I just don't see this scene making any real sense.

Regards,
Joyce

Sure.. — Peter Love, Tue Jul 13 1:30
Pete But where does the report it was Behan who got her drunk or took advantage of her condition stem from?
- Peter Love — Peter Brand, Tue Jul 13 17:23
  Lake claimed it was "Doc's enemies". Frank Waters claimed it was Behan and Doc's enemies. So I would say Frank Waters. Cheers Pb
- - To Two Petes — Bob Cash, Wed Jul 14 12:06
    Lake does say that "Doc's enemies" induced Kate to the affidavit, but further down the page there's this: "At the hearing, Kate disappointed Johnny Behan woefully. She had signed some paper, she said ... more
  - - Kate's allegiance... — Joyce Aros, Sat Jul 24 11:00
      ...One has to wonder what happened between Doc and Kate at the time to cause her to go drinking with 'Doc's enemies' such as Johnny Behan. Isn't it unlikely she was on such friendly terms with Behan t... more
    - - Re: Kate's allegiance... — Angel, Sun Jul 25 17:23
        Joyce, just my idea here… I don’t have provenance to prove it…. BUT I have a feeling that Kate thought this action might have been her chance to separate Doc and Wyatt. I really do believe she had... more
      - Angel/t hank you... — Joyce Aros, Sun Jul 25 17:49
        ...I think your supposition sounds pretty reasonable and there has been talk she didn't like the Earps. But I am thinking she had to have a lot of confidence Doc wouldn't retaliate in some wa... more
        
        “Love is a kind of warfare” Ovid (nm) — B.J., Sun Jul 25 18:49
        
        Ovid and his disappointments... — Joyce Aros, Mon Jul 26 5:38
        ...perhaps the brilliant man didn't understand the word 'compromise.' It can be very effective.
        
        The "great man" was a strategist who "married well" — gobs, Tue Jul 27 2:01
        Joyce ... hope you're doing well ... British historian David Dutton wrote ... “Chamberlain made mistakes in the 1930s ... he clung too long to the hope of averting war, but it is doubtful if ... more
        
        Excellent Gobs, most people missed Chamberlain's end game... — B.J., Tue Jul 27 6:05
        Neville Chamberlain was heavily criticized especially by the British print media. He was well aware that Hitler could not be trusted to keep an agreement. His endgame as you correctly pointed out was ... more
        
        fascinating depth... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 27 5:09
        ...and today we have the Anglo/American world power with a base of mud and metal. Not much to look forward to. Joyce
        
        How did compromise work for Neville Chamberlain with Hitler? (nm) — B.J., Mon Jul 26 20:24
        
        BJ/ compromise... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 27 4:49
        ...I guess it only works in a marriage; the basis is love. Not much love in Hitler's heart. You guys are branching into intriguing subjects. The world today might still lead us down the same path!... more
        
        The world today might still lead us down the same path!.... — B.J., Tue Jul 27 6:19
        Joyce, what you correctly pointed out is exactly why JFK as President included Historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr.to a Cabinet Level position in his administration. President Kennedy during his earlier g... more
  - - Thanks Bob. Appreciate the added info (nm) — Peter Brand, Wed Jul 14 16:35
  - - Re: To Two Petes — Peter Love, Wed Jul 14 15:56
      Thanks Bob So it came from Lake and we don’t know who he may have got that story from. In any case, is not an officer permitted to take a statement from, or testify in regard to conversation with ... more
    - - I meant Spicer — Peter Love, Wed Jul 14 21:16
        Surprisingly nobody picked me up on that
      - Re: I meant Spicer — Bob Cash, Sat Jul 17 8:46
        We knew what you meant, Peter.
- - Dance houses in Tombstone — Peter Brand, Tue Jul 13 17:47
    Women could drink and attract friends or customers at dance houses in Tombstone. One such low dance house on 6th street paid a nightly fee of $2.50 to the city in order to operate. There were, theref... more
  - - Prostitutes and drinking — Peter Brand, Tue Jul 13 20:35
      Most, if not all, prostitutes were heavy drinkers and/or drug users. I have lost count of the number of gamblers and their prostitute partners who came to blows while under the influence. Suicides wer... more
  - - Dance houses, ect... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 13 18:26
      ...Peter, I recognize there were such 'dance palaces' for the purpose of prostitution and so on but I thought they were locations the menfolk would approach when they wished to. All the photos I have ... more
    - - Re: Dance houses, ect... — Bob Cash, Wed Jul 14 17:17
        I don't think we have enough hard evidence to say Behan did ply Kate with liquor to get her to tell what she knew of Doc's actions on the day of the attempted robberies and murder, but I wouldn't see ... more
      - Evidence under the influence?... — Joyce Aros, Thu Jul 15 5:34
        ...the question comes up as to whether Kate's information could be absorbed into the legal system if it was from an 'under the influence' condition. I realize rules were shaky in the developing fronti... more
      - Thanks Bob — Peter Love, Wed Jul 14 21:32
        I didn’t see this one. Yep, that’s what I was thinking. Pete
- some concerns... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 13 5:58
- - Historical Record — Mike Mihaljevich, Tue Jul 13 22:06
    Having read the Recorder’s Court Docket from cover to cover, I assure you women being drunk, being arrested for being drunk, being fined or imprisoned for being drunk (depending on their ability/willi... more
  - - Re: Historical Record — Dan Brown, Wed Jul 14 16:47
      Women suffer the same weaknesses as men. Addictions remain common. And from what I've gleaned from daily news, false allegations and subsequent retractions are not unheard of. Joyce questions wise... more
  - - Mike/the record... — Joyce Aros, Wed Jul 14 6:16
      ...I have no trouble recognizing, as you brought out, that the women of the day living under incredible and economic hardship found prostitution and other minor work slavery enough to drive them to se... more
  - - Thanks Mike. The records are clear on this. — Peter Brand, Wed Jul 14 0:07
      It was exactly the same in Prescott. Cheers Pb
- - Pete and Joyce... — Bob Cash, Tue Jul 13 7:57
    I think the only absolute conclusion one can draw based on the contemporary record is that Kate got drunk and swore out the affidavit accusing Doc of participation in the attempted robbery and murder.... more
  - - Hi Bob — Peter Love, Tue Jul 13 16:13
      I still have a look here from time to time. Like you I am waiting for the Curly Bill books. I see Joyce is doing one. I’ll get that. Pete
    - - Re: Hi Bob — Bob Cash, Sat Jul 17 15:58
        Have you had a chance to look at the Wyatt Earp Anthology or Bossenecker's RIDE THE DEVIL'S HERD?
  - - Nice post... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 13 8:16
      Hello Bob, Thought no one was giving you a bad time so had better get back to work! All kidding aside, that was a very nice post to each of us, Pete and I, and is appreciated. My new book is ... more
    - - your book, Joyce — paul j, Tue Jul 13 9:34
        Is your book likely to be in print by October's TTR? - paul
      - Hi Paul... — Joyce Aros, Tue Jul 13 11:41
        I am not sure. I hope so. I will know something more definite in a day or so and will let you know. Thank you for your interest.
        
        I enjoyed your first book! (nm) — Dan Brown, Wed Jul 14 17:51
        
        Dan, Paul, and others... — Joyce Aros, Wed Jul 14 21:06
        My publishers are expecting to have my book out before Christmas but not sure about TTR time. It's a small company I work with and they have other things going on but I have great confidence in them a... more
        
        You worked hard! (nm) — Dan Brown, Thu Jul 15 12:10

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