Re: The issue this is related to is was Tom armed.
Thu Jun 03, 6:29

Tom ... once more, the only incontrovertible factoid that I can offer is that a Colt looks nothing like a S&W ... no matter how often you examine it

"If you believe Keefe found an additional gun he described as a S&W that would imply but not prove it was Tom's"
I have never implied or tried to prove this was the case
The rest according to what I can recall in Turner ...

"The Coroner never had more than two Colts as he testified"
Correct ... one from Fly ... he himself never arrived at the house at least twenty minutes after Keefe did ... Keefe appears to have taken over, sending someone for a doctor and then helping him with administering the morphine ... he appears to know a lot about those for a carpenter ... Matthews brought in Frank's gun and laid it on the carpet while examining Tom's body, which was presumably nearest the door ... this doesn't mean it was the one Keefe and Fuller examined ... if it was, Matthews should have noticed someone was tampering with evidence ... strangely, Keefe stayed until Tom's body was removed ... nothing better to do, or casing the joint?
"Keefe identified one of them as the S&W in the Coroners Office"
Didn't Keefe say he didn't think that it was the one he picked up in the house?
"the Coroner then brought them to court and Keefe again identified one of them as the gun he spoke of in the little house where Tom was dying"
Didn't Keefe say he didn't think that either was the one he picked up in the house?
"Keefe was then asked to look at the gun he had just identified as a S&W and saw and admitted it was a Colt"
He admitted that those in court were both Colt's ... never identified a S&W
"Thus his statement of the existence of the S&W was false as it was in fact a Colt"
He was correct about those existing in evidence
"Thus the third gun he had brought up did not exist as he confused a Colt at the scene as A S&W"
He examined a S&W at "the scene", but not in court
"Neither of the two Colts the Coroner had were S&W and both were Colts"
You're presumably correct ... the serial numbers confirm this
"Thus Keefe's statement about the existence of the third gun, a S&W, is destroyed as he claims to still see it in court"
He saw a S&W at "the scene", but not in court
"but on closer examination admits it is a Colt"
So he finally knows the difference when faced with "incontrovertible" evidence? Or did he?
"The Coroner said he put one of the Colts down where Keefe claimed to pick it up"
So the same gun, a Colt, not a S&W? ... again, tampering with evidence?
"Keefe was a prosecution witness ..."
Again ... the buffoon to bookend Ike in incompetence
"... who said there was no sign of a gun around Tom's corpse or that general area"
My contention has always been that [if Tom had a gun]. he was in shock and mortally wounded, so it would have been dropped closer to "the site" ... way before the telegraph pole
"As Keefe was the first or one of the first to reach Tom"
One of the four or five [who never gave evidence]
"Fellehys words in the Coroners Hearing of seeing a gun in Tom's hand from a block away"
Again ... haven't we concluded that this was Frank, "the man WITH the horse" not "behind the horse" who lost control of the same horse in the middle of the same street, staggered and fell on his back ... he had a gun in his hand when he was probably "killed instantaneously" and presumably dropped it nearby

Fellahy/Fallahy was [as you say] almost a full block away and concentrating on "the man with the horse"

Keep On Chooglin'

    • The issue this is related to is was Tom armed.The pertinence is in the eye of the beholder, Tue Jun 01 23:30
      Dan and not the whole case pertinence. The Coroner found only two pistols which he identified as belonging to Billy, retrieved by Fly, and Frank picked up on the street. Each was a 44.40 chambe... more
      • Re: The issue this is related to is was Tom armed. — gobs, Thu Jun 03 6:29
        • Was Tom Armed? Keefe says probably notTom Gaumer, Sat Jun 05 3:08
          Gobs KtK says the two guns are quite different and Keefe would know that. That is between him and you. Keefe's testimony is pretty clear. Ktk claims to know Keefe was lying via KtK speculation. ... more
          • Tom ... is this the same Turner that you consult? Turner, Second Printing 1992, English Language Version [not the Welsh version], page 132 Excuse my capitalisation ... "at request, he picks u... more
            • Gobs that he had seen and handled a S&W at the little house where Tom and Billy died. Keefe proved in court that did not happen. He was never pushed to identify any gun. He could say the gun I... more
              • Stern Facedgobs, Thu Jun 10 3:37
                Tom ... this can't even explained by a lack of syntactical knowledge and experience ... he was presented with two Colts, the only ones in evidence, and denied they were the S&W he examined ... couldn'... more
                • You are leaving out the whole of what Keefe saidTom Gaumer, Thu Jun 10 5:58
                  gobs picking out what appeals to you. Keefe said the gun he identified from the little house (Smith and Wesson) was seen by him in the Coroners office over lunch. The Coroner then placed the tw... more
                  • O Come, All Ye Faithfulgobs, Thu Jun 10 6:52
                    "At any time he could have said the gun I saw in the little house and identified as a S&W is not here. Instead he said it was there and was proven wrong twice." Tom, Tom, here we go again ... destr... more
                    • Everything Keefe said has been put upTom Gaumer, Thu Jun 10 23:32
                      Gobs You just don't want to believe it. Like Kenny you ignore the facts of Keefe's testimony because it clashes with your faith and speculations No argument or facts or testimony from the record ... more
                      • "I just want to get the facts, ma'am"gobs, Fri Jun 11 2:12
                        Tom ... it's only you who doesn't want to believe the facts ... ask around ... the tireless [and tiring] reiteration of your readings of the evidence completely ignores the facts, speculates on his te... more
        • The Other Onesgobs, Thu Jun 03 6:57
          Forgot the probable flaw, but the questioning seems purposely worded to confuse ... (Q) What kind of pistol is the other one? (A) The same as the other one, a Colt (Q) Have you seen the pistol y... more
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