Tom, I'm sorry I had to point out the differences in the two articles, apparently written by the same author a month apart. To me the fact that he mentions only Ike in one and Tom in the ater one certainly raises questions as to the veracity of his quoting Clum quoting Wyatt about Tom being blasted by Doc as he attempted to access Billy's rifle. That, however, doesn't mean that scenario is defintely untrue. Harry Carr drove to Tombstone with Clum, spent a lot of time with him there and presumably drove him back. Maybe Clum finally broke from the party line and at some point told Carr what Wyatt told him aboout what REALLY happened.
I believe that Burn's TOMBSTONE was the first source to describe Tom being killed by Doc as he went for the rifle (Raine in his 1927 article HELLDORADO says Tom tried to unstrap the rifle AFTER he had beed mortally wounded). It's also the first (and only source) that I know of, other than rants by Kenny and me, that says Wyatt and Morg fired the first shots.
Interestingly he's also the only author other than Earp's ghostwriter (1896), Hooker, Flood and Lake to have spoken directly to Wyatt about his life and presumably the street fight. Who knows, maybe Wyatt let it slip to Clum as well as to Burns. Unfortunately that is about all one can say about almost any aspect of Tom McLaury's actions on his last day on earth, "Who knows, maybe...".
Bob ... finally found your post after searching under "Clum" ... interesting ... without plaguing this discussion with syntax or semantics, does the quote directed at Ike actually blend into the one a... more
Los Angeles Times article by Harry Carr, April 26, 1931:
"Much criticism has been spoken because two of the Clantons - Ike Clanton and Tom McLowery - were without arms in that fight. Mr. Clum relat... more
Bob ... thanks again ... could still be ambiguous, taking into consideration recent descriptions on here that seemed rife with misidentification of some of those involved ... but never Ike before ... ... more
was unarmed. That would have been great and with a reasonable or likely chance of being true.
This new post undercuts that and moves it to"Who knows, maybe..."
The fact you compared the two ... more
I don't know how anything Wyatt said could be determind to be close to the truth in terms of Tom's actions. In his testimony Wyatt said in thought Tom had a gun and fired it but wasn't sure, in the 18... more
It is the same as yours. We are not going to know. A case can be made both ways and certainty is not to be had.
However we can have a discussion of it which keeps us from doing more useful t... more
I assume when you say "breaking in" you mean picking the lock or coercing the producer to hand over the keys. I'm pretty sure this would be an event that we wouldn't have to quibble over eyewitness te... more
I am of a mind that Clum talks whoppers as big as the ones Wyatt usually does. Surely Harry Carr would not be so gullible as to believe that Burn's nonsense? Did Clum?
After a gun went off and shot... more
It doesn't matter at what point Tom or Frank got shot. Someone did and that horse is not going to stand there while Doc and Morgan shoot somebody and then Doc adds the buckshot and then Virgil and Mor... more
If you look at any he of my posts on Tom, I think I have made it clear that I don't have any idea if Tom was armed, if he jumped behind the horse, or if he did try to take cover behind the horse wheth... more
I am so used to being viewed as the old lady who doesn't know what she is talking about that I sometimes get a little silly.
And like everyone else, I am still trying to figure it out though I have... more
Apology excepted (not a missprlling). Re-reading my original post about Wyatt supposedly telling Clum that Tom was unarmed but ran to a horse to get a gun, I can see how you may have thought I believe... more
Mr Cash ... I'm with you in that I have no place for conjecture ... we might as well all go home now ... but are you willing to accept Joyce's new [to me] supposition that Tom attempted to get the rif... more
Gobs, I don't think it was Joyce's supposition. I think what she was respondinding to was my description of William McLeod Raine's account in his 1927 article HELLDORADO in which he says that, already... more
Breakenridge was not in town on the day of the street fight, so I don't know where Raine got this story. Raine was in Arizona for a fair amount of time in the early 1900's so I suppose he got it then.... more